Goats, in general, have horns. However, particularly in dairy goats, horns are often considered undesirable, and are normally prevented from growing, a procedure called ‘disbudding’. Disbudding is done while the goat is very young, either by burning the horn area with a hot iron, or by using a very caustic paste. The point in either procedure, is to destroy the horn ‘bud’, so that it does not grow into a proper horn. Toggenburgs, our breed, are traditionally sold either disbudded or de-horned, and any serious buyer, willing to pay registered Toggenurg prices, expects hornless goats.
As with everything else goat-related on this farm, there have been…issues.
Since we knew that we did not have a clue how to properly disbud a goat, we took all of our goat kids to the vet last year to have the procedure done. It turns out, the vet was a little shaky on the procedure, himself, and additionally neglected to mention that he did not have the right tools for the job. We ended up paying a pretty penny for local anesthetic, painkillers, consultation fees, and a half-assed ‘procedure’ that was ultimately useless on our bucks (the girls were okay), leaving us with one buck kid with full horns, and another who had one horn and one scur (though he has currently broken that off, so he has one horn and one matted blood clot):
Now, from my understanding, horn scurs are pretty common with buck goats. A scur is where a true horn does not grow, but portion of the horn tissue does continue to grow, producing something that is sort of like a horn, but not nearly as strong or dangerous. Something about the testosterone makes those buck horns defy disbudding attempts; girl goats rarely have this problem. Even our foundation buck, Tuscan, who was properly disbudded, has horn scurs:
The scurs are something of a pain in the rear. Tuscan periodically catches his on the fence, and breaks one partially or completely off. There tends to be a lot of blood involved, though it doesn’t seem to bother the goat very much. However those remnant horn bits tend to curl pretty tightly to the goat’s head, rather than pointing up or out, where they can get properly stuck in, say, a fence, or hurt an innocent bystander, like, say, me. Titan, who still has full horns, frequently pokes me with them when he is getting over-eager to get at the hay I am carrying…and he is a friendly and very docile boy. I wouldn’t want to tangle with a scared or aggressive buck who had horns like that, I can assure you.
I am still quite frustrated that the vet charged us for a procedure that did not work…twice. We took both boys back in when it became apparent that the horn buds were growing, despite the treatment. We were quite shocked when we got mailed the bill. This year, we are considering disbudding paste, as it is a real hit to pay the vet big bucks to end up with horned bucks anyhow, and not being able to sell them as a result.
Or, in a perfect world, we will end up with all girls…
Hi Guys,
For what its worth, I highly recommend that you pick up a debudding iron, and make yourself a kid dehorn box for control..
I did a number of kids, including males and had no issues at all with regrowth, I used the iron within the first 48 hours in the box, and then sprayed with the blue for safety.
Its the box that seems to make the huge difference, I think its the control that is offered by it. It keeps everyone calm and steady..and once made, it will last you for many, many years to come.
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=385
We have used the disbdding paste sucessfully. Just follow the instructions exactly. An iron works great but buld the box for sure if you choose this method as baby goats are so wiggly and will cry so pitifully when you dehorn no matter what method you use. A good pr. of clippers is essential to see the area you are aiming for…..
Have you brought your issue back to the vet? I would really talk with them, receipts in hand, and express your extreme displeasure at being charged twice for a procedure that didn’t work (and, sounds like, they perhaps shouldn’t have even been doing).
I let them know I was not happy, but they did not reduce the bill. I am just taking my business elsewhere. The problem is, nobody here knows much about goats, and few vets are willing to even talk to me about them, let alone do anything with them. I am trying to be more pro-active in learning how to do things myself, like vaccinations and hoof trimming, and such, but there’s only so much a girl can do.
My friend L runs a huge goat farm – 150 does, plus a big herd of billies and all of those babies (20-100+ every month!) – and she uses a debudding iron as Farmgal suggested, and they’re held in a little wooden box the size of a big suitcase. She said that they bleat and holler, but she thinks it because of being held down more than the debudding. They don’t act any differently after you’re done.
I know a lot of people use the iron…I am scared to try it without having someone show me how to use it properly, as I have read that if you do it ‘wrong’ you can kill the kids. I am trying to offer myself up as a free intern to a more experienced goatkeeper, but there are exactly two within driving distance of me, and they’re both very busy people, so it’s hard to get anyone to help me out. The vet, of course, is no help.
Hi JJ,
I know that you are going to think me a bit out there for saying this but do consider the fact that you can practise using the iron, I don’t want to tell you what the coconut looked like when I was done with it..
I was able to get a very experence goat person to show me the first time but when it came time to do it myself, it didn’t take the worry out of it or the need to go awe.. what did was working with the iron on a wood board, a coconut and even on horn itself, I had a old one around.
The tricky part is learning how to place it solidly on the spot you want, how long to keep it there, how deep you want to go and the only way to do that is to practise with your iron.
If you only do it say six to eight times a year on the kids, you are always going to be in a state of worry, or at least I know when once a year things come around, I get that way.. I did it last year but its now a “knowledge skill” instead of a ingrained skill and its a rusty one to boot..
Its like using the bands on the babies, I will practise a few times catching and pulling them down, I will practise the motion of the gear, I will even fake use the bands on, a few times just to get that feel back again before I head out to start doing it.
Now I am not going to say that you can’t kill a kid with them but you would have to truly be a bit over the top to make that happen..
The way I would look at it is, build the box, practise with a iron till you are feeling comfortable that you have a very good idea how the count is till you ge the depth you want on the burn, and then go for it.
Could you really do worse then the vet did? I don’t think so, and if say you are successful for 60 to 80 percent of the kids this year, and you have 20 percent end up with the spurs, you will have learned which ones worked, and which ones didn’t, and track it..
If you used your board, and you know how many seconds each burn was, mark it on the board itself, and then have someone watching track it for you on the kids and then you will have that data and knowledge for next year.
Good luck on what you decide to do
That’s not the slightest bit ‘out there’! You make very good points, in fact. I am trying to get one of the local goat people to show me, but maybe this way would be an option, as well. Is there a particular reason I should be avoiding the disbudding paste? Some of my online goat folks have recommended it pretty highly.
Well, the two times I did it, it didn’t work well, and that’s when I ended up with spurs, but that was years ago and perhaps the fomula have gotten better or perhaps I didn’t do it quite right or ?
Disbudding with the iron is absolutely the worst job there is on my homestead. The kids don’t cry, or shriek… they plaintively bellow out a howl as if they are being killed… and when they taper off to a bleating moan during the final sear from pain and exhaustion I’m a wreck, too.
You just do it anyway.
I got online and read the how to’s and, as usual, Molly at fiasco farms has the best how to.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/disbudding.htm
We heeded her advise about the Rhinehart X-30; she’s right.
I squirt betadine on the burn spot and carry them back to mama. In a minute or two it’s like nothing happened.
You can do it.
Thanks, comrade. I am trying to get a (somewhat) nearby goat person to show me how, as I am terrified of getting it wrong. We’ll see how it all goes. It’s nice to hear that other folks’ find it difficult to do/contemplate, and that I’m not just a puss